Curse

manitoba1073 · Sep 30, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I think this estimation is way off. Staffs with only a single perfect mod are worthless. Merchant fodder. And then there's the incompatible requirements, weird attribute combinations. The vast majority of found staffs is complete and utter rubbish. I'm betting thousands of staffs with a worthwhile inherent mod are thrashed on a daily basis because the total package is just unusable. When the possibility to harvest these mods arises, the market will be flooded with perfect 20%/10% mods like it's never been flooded with anything before. Staff inscriptions will be so abundant that I foresee people asking for them to be stackable.

That is, if inscriptions will work like everyone seems to assume they will work. They probably won't and 99% of the posts in this thread will be moot.

it was just an example since noone seemed to understand when i did it with the swords example lol but yeah the estimation is prolly off but not the idea of it

Cybah · Sep 30, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

yes the market would be flooded. but 10/10 and 20/20 staffs are cheap atm. there is NO need to make them cheaper -.-

Cjlr · Sep 30, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

actually i have posted several times why this will devestate GW. Cjlr maybe for some reason ppl still dont see so ill grab and paste it back here for you
used a staff as noone understood when i used swords and got stuck on just 15^50% parts lol and this part i cant stress enough also

bottom line the causual player will no longer even beable to afford a decent staff even. for those who think that there will be MORE supply, Anet HAS NOT and IS NOT going to increase the drop rates. we will only get more types of skins availiable NOT actuall numbers of mods availiable.

I went back to find your sword example, and found two posts that might have been what you were referring to:

Quote:

unless anet increases the number of 15^50 mods out there. and it will only compund more if you are able to remove all 3 mods from a weapon instead of even just one mod. and worse fact is the fact is that from what i understand we will have 100% chance to get the mods from weapons quarenteeing the prices. so lets continue the example of the sword. right now its at 50k then u add a +30 health (55k for sword) 20/20 sundering (45k) rough prices. but if u are guarenteed all three salvages. what do u really think that sword will go for. 50k+55k+45k=150k in my book. whether they are on a unrare white or a rare gold the base value will be 150k.

Who mods things they're going to sell? You buy the things you cannot make for yourself. You buy for skin and you buy for infixes. And you add your own mods. If I want a 20/20 15>50 +30hp sword, as of now I have to buy a 15>50 sword in whatever skin, then buy a sundering mod, then buy a fortitude mod. There are four variables I want, but for some reason two of them are bound together. If I can buy a 15>50 infix, a 20/20 prefix, and a +30 suffix independently (though why would I, when 14>50, 19/19, and +29 mods would be far cheaper), and buy a max skin independently, what's the big deal?

And then there's:

Quote:

And I will give you an even easier example of why things will inflate, continuing to use swords:
Right now, there are roughly 35 sword skins out there. Only around 10 types are considered valuable. All others will have their mods salvaged for use on those 10 valuable skins. IE You lose the other 25 or so types. You may see more of the expensive types around but NONE of the others with 15^50 stats anymore, thus reducing the numbers of weapons not increasing them.

It's not like they're sold now. If I want to buy a 15>50 gladius, is anyone selling one? Already there are only a few skins that are really advertised and sold. Supply will increase, not decrease, because more things will be worth selling. A crappy sword (that wouldn't be sold anyway) with a good mod will be salvaged. A good sword with a crappy mod or no mods will become viable, if it can be upgraded to suit. It increases the number of items that people will be willing to buy, if there is the possibility of buying skins and attaching your own mods.

Quote:

Now, with 35 types, and 7 ranges of reqs, there are 245 possible sword combinations. We'll start with that. Say they all have the 15^50 mod. Then, said 10 types would be of value - that gives us 70 types. Everyone only wants req 7-9, and that puts us down to 3 out of the 10. Therefore there are only 30 or so types of swords you will ever really see being sold.

That's not the point. Modding a weapon does not increase its value. That's the point. If I put a perfect fortitude on my axe, it doesn't mean I can sell the axe for more. If someone wants a perfect fortitude on their axe they can bloody well add it themselves.

I tried to fix up your english a little, so I could read it. I might have misinterpreted a bit, though, so sorry for that if it is indeed the case.

Now as for those staves:

Quote:

BEFORE
A. say raven staff 20% healling cast rate chance maybe 2-5k at most now
B.say raven staff 20% healling recharge rate chance maybe 2-5k at most now
4k-10k for the staffs before the inherent mod salvage comes along
AFTER
A. say raven staff 20% healling cast rate chance maybe 10-20k now
B.say raven staff 20% healling recharge rate chance maybe 10-20k now
10k-40k total price now cause of the inherent mod salvage

A raven staff for 5k? Uh... Riiight. Besides, if infixes are salvageable, why couldn't you just salvage them from COLLECTOR'S WEAPONS?

People don't sell mods that are still attached to weapons. If someone wants a mod, do they buy 1), the mod, or 2), a weapon with the mod (which probably isn't the weapon they want to put it on?). I've seen a lot more of 1). But maybe that's just me.

Quote:

now if Anet relly wanted to lower the prices of golds the one and only real way to do it would be this and it was pointed out how effective that was
first method 3 parts to it to fix the problems with out the inscriptions salvage option
A. no inscription salvage implemented
1. lower the effect of the anti farm code
2. increase the drop percent of golds and greens
3. reput in the keyless chests to remote places liek the ones that where in dreadnaughts drifts

Yes, let's support the bots and ebay farmers, shall we? Because ANet loves them.

Quote:

PS mods did the ppl get banned on account of this thread, hope not, sorry to you guys if you did. some where very good arguements i thought and i appreciate all sides of this even if noones really seeing what i see happening when this takes affect.

I wondered about that too...
Is it a coincidence that they were the ones disagreeing with the moderators?

BTW, that's a joke. Please don't ban me

.

Oh, and another thing. It isn't like gold weapons won't still be worth more than whites, blues, purples, and greens. People don't work like that. Can you distinguish between natural diamonds and synthetic diamonds? Now, which one costs more?

EDIT: fixed a couple typos...

Tommy · Sep 30, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

you guys know that anet can't ban the chinese farmers right? cuz they dont buy the game like we do for 50 bucks, instead they pay a weekly fee of 2 dollars or so to play. most chinese botters created their account in Taiwan and farm in int and sell to int. they dont fear of banning. inscription dont kill them, it only hurts the ordinary players.

manitoba1073 · Sep 30, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

the mods are supposed to be 100% salvageable thats y i was saying about being sold with anything.

That's not the point. Modding a weapon does not increase its value. That's the point. If I put a perfect fortitude on my axe, it doesn't mean I can sell the axe for more. If someone wants a perfect fortitude on their axe they can bloody well add it themselves.

actually with the incription salvage it will increase the value because of the mods.

A raven staff for 5k? Uh... Riiight. Besides, if infixes are salvageable, why couldn't you just salvage them from COLLECTOR'S WEAPONS?

the 5k was only an example and i believe the collectors wont be able to salvage from, i think they will work like all mods alrdy do

Quote:
now if Anet relly wanted to lower the prices of golds the one and only real way to do it would be this and it was pointed out how effective that was
first method 3 parts to it to fix the problems with out the inscriptions salvage option
A. no inscription salvage implemented
1. lower the effect of the anti farm code
2. increase the drop percent of golds and greens
3. reput in the keyless chests to remote places liek the ones that where in dreadnaughts drifts

Yes, let's support the bots and ebay farmers, shall we? Because ANet loves them.

how is that making it better for ebay farmers and bots, it also makes it easy for regular players to find the good stuff and not having to go to ebay and bots. but ofcourse there will always be the lazy ones that do anyways

Mr Lem · Sep 30, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

I support a-net 100% with there decision to make +% dmg modifiers salvagable.

And I for sure cant wait to make my +dmg% Always Crystalline sword ^^

LifeInfusion · Oct 01, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

there will always be those that want to exploit something... That's not what this game is about. its not called market wars... Its guild wars. One key feature of Guildwars was to eliminate grind. But some people just can not get that through their melon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Again, leprekan, you are playing a different game than I am. I do the quests, missions, unlock Elites, etc. I don't farm for Greens or Golds, don't Chest Run, I don't solo farm UW or FoW...

That's just me. And, honestly, I don't really care about rare skins. I DO care about perfect mods and inherent bonus modifiers, and if this makes it easier to get those, I'm happy.

This may sound like a stupid question, but is every inherent bonus modifier even currently available from a Collector or Crafter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

The alleged "economy" of Guild Wars was never intended to be. This is a game that caters to balance, not how uber you can make your character. The inscriptions salvage will cater to the heart and intent of the game.

It is, in a word, brilliant.

Guild Wars not Grind Wars or Farming Wars. Arenanet is just taking the crappy part of getting items' stats, esp. with the Hero system.

I'm in the same boat as Mordakai. I'm a casual player that only gets to play when I'm free and on vacations.

If you want to play "get the most money and weapon skins" then GW is the wrong game. They even said that it caters to casual players.

My problem with the inscriptions is that Arenanet doesn't stress it's real usage, the focii and shield mods. You cannot get any shield you want but you can get every weapon you want.

I also pity the people that play for the sake of items. It is almost as bad as people who buy FoW using Ebayed gold. The journery is more important than the destination. Playing through the storyline and quests with people should be the fun part, not flashing some uber expensive weapon to show off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe

I dont know if anyone thought of this, but to me a clear and easy solution to this whole discussion would be for Anet to implement inscriptions in the following way.
You can only add inscriptions to Customized items.

I think that's a superb idea.

Keep in mind 80% of people have <20K and that it got worse with Factions' skill costs. I alone spent over 100plat for my monk's skills.

Cybah · Oct 01, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

as casual player you do NOT need a beautiful skin, just play with collector's or weapon trader's weapons.

and this customized idea is bullshit. everyone will buy cheap weaps and customize them and then add a perfect inherent mod.

that would change NOTHING on the fact of a killed market.

imho casual players who play 1 hour/week are not able to discuss about this change. your mind sounds a bit egoistic "I want my cheap crystalline sword, so shut up thx".

everyone can make money by trading. I do not want to see all those traders pissed of by a change for casual players who delete gw after some weeks.

milias · Oct 01, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Still no word on a confirmation or denial from ANet/NCSoft? I'm pretty sure Gaile is reading this, maybe she's waiting for a concensus to be reached? Unfortunately, if she is, I don't think we'll come to any kind of concensus any time soon on this issue. Even if she's still checking with the developers/designers on this, I would really like to know that it's being looked into.

Nickhimself · Oct 01, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I don't like this salvage idea at all. It will make these hours and hours people (including myself) have spent chest running / farming for that one amazing drop of req 8 15^50 completely wasted.

I really hope they don't do this, for real. But, if they do, it won't change the way I play. I'll just start farming for whites req 7 so I can mod them up =/

Pandora's box · Oct 01, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

To the opp:

I did not notice anything of this during the Nightfall PvE weekend. But maybe the items I found were not good enough

I dont care very much. I can buy every item or mod in game and make the best items I need myself. I think it was wrong anyway to make salvaging give a random result between prefix and suffix. I would think its logical to get both from a salvaged item. As for the economy: time for a change! This game is supposed to 'don't let us work' for levels and items. So it seems alright to me to have an easier way to create better items. I only have no clue what to do next with my gold than...

Fender · Oct 02, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

IMO, if this works any way remotely how many people are assuming this will work, this will be one of best changes they've made to GW. Lowering the barriers to advancement to new players and PvP players is awesome and I have no sympathy for the few uber-traders that are going to lose a couple million gold to benefit the rest of the GW population.

GODh · Oct 02, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fender

IMO, if this works any way remotely how many people are assuming this will work, this will be one of best changes they've made to GW. Lowering the barriers to advancement to new players and PvP players is awesome and I have no sympathy for the few uber-traders that are going to lose a couple million gold to benefit the rest of the GW population.

Agreed, if this is going to hurt the economy then probably only for the uber traders and the ebay kiddies (and then i dont care)

Two April Mornings · Oct 02, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

^only problem is that it lowers absolutely no barriers. With greens and collectors weapons, there are no barriers to advancement.

manitoba1073 · Oct 02, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

and if u guys think its gonna hurt any rich trader ur so wrong. as i know alot that will make more than millions of gold when this happens. and ill admit so will i. i estimate i spent 700k on stuff and will make about 7 million of the mods alone. so if u guys are hoping it will ruin the so called rich traders its not gonna affect them at all. so when u guys are all complaining that inherent mods are way to much ill be here to remind u guys i tried to warn u. with a big told u so.

ibex333 · Oct 02, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

I have questions and I'm sorry if they were answered already. (too lazy to browse through a 23 page long thread)

1)Is it 100% confirmed that you will be able to salvage inherrent mods from weapons and put them on other weapons? Will it be done with a salvage kit or some other way?

2)Does the same apply to shields? Meaning, you take a mod from one shield place it onto another, etc.

arcanemacabre · Oct 02, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

I have questions and I'm sorry if they were answered already. (too lazy to browse through a 23 page long thread)

1)Is it 100% confirmed that you will be able to salvage inherrent mods from weapons and put them on other weapons? Will it be done with a salvage kit or some other way?

2)Does the same apply to shields? Meaning, you take a mod from one shield place it onto another, etc.

It's not confirmed, and in fact, no one has any clue how this will work. This whole thread is nothing but a bunch of arguing about assumptions and speculations.

All we have is a small blurb in a magazine saying that we will be able to choose which mod to salvage from weapons, and that we can now salvage the inherent mods off items in the form of "inscriptions". It's so incredibly vague how the system works, but yet people still argue about the implications.

I'm still taking a "we shall see" approach. So, yeah, we shall see.

elLOCOmutha · Oct 02, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Does anyone know if these "inscriptions" will just be for changing the inherents on weapons only or will we be having inscriptions for shields and other things?

I'm glad I didnt spend millions on that Crystalline Sword I wanted so badly.

Thallandor · Oct 02, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Having read through 23 pages of comments (skipping some inflammatory ones) taking a whole morning and a good part of the afternoon, there are a few things perhaps i would like to get off my chest as a Hardcore PvEr who also understand the causal player needs.

First of all, What i am most worried about is the lack of an official response from either Galie or Alex, despite all the discussion had has transpired from a very short paragraph in the November issue of PC gamer. This leads me to believe the design and implementation of how inscriptions will work at the point of conception and interpretation from the Magazine is indeed what as we have comprehended/understood. This is drawn from experience of the similar lack of response from Anet when the ELite mission details were released prior to game release, which spanned several pages/threads of fierce discussion in these very forums.

Secondly, being a "middle class" gamer who like to collect greens (their value keep dropping due to over farming *-*) i can understand the need for causal gamers to have access to gear that they need to play the game. Anything else is really just a want. With the inclusion of inscriptions, it will please most causal players being able to try to own that weapon with a nice skin with perfect stats regardless of colour without spending large amount of time to farm gold for it. Many months ago if anyone remembered we had a large debate on:

"How are we suppose to afford the things we want playing the game normally?"

Inscriptions i believe was the result to solve this "problem". As for the comments that this is Anet's way of destroying the enconmy, getting rid rich Players, making up for the dynfunctional trading system, i personally dont believe that is the case. Since it makes good business sense not to alienate any one particular customer group. What that may have seem like a good suggestion on the boardroom meeting may not have enough perspectives to cover all aspects of how the impact of the change will have on the overall meta game and hence threads like theses are invaluable to understand the potential problems from all perspectives.

Thirdly, as for being a Hardcore player, i do spend alot of the time playing the game partly for titles, farming items, gold for armour to play "dress up doll" and helping out for fun but understand also that for the sakes of replayability/life span of the game there needs to be goals in the game to keep players playing and GW sadly is lacking greatly in this department if you dont play PvP at all. To put a long story short, basically there isnt that much of PvE at all once you have completed all the story missions/quest and if the FoW or Greens/gold items(with the same base stats) dont interest you, its unlikely you will keep playing or buy future chapters for that matter.

The current debate basically focuses on both "Skins" and to a lesser extend "requirements" for an item for stating the obvious. And to address not only those who have spend many efforts to collect their perfect golds but also those who aspire to own their dream "weapon/item", Inscriptions would create a huge impact for them removing the goals they set for themselves within the game.

I generally agree with some of the posters that anything worth having is worth working for, the Urgoz Longbow i got as a drop really made my day for me even though it has the same stats as Drago or can be easily replicated with collectors for that matter. It has no bearing if it makes you better than a player without it or someone who cant afford it but merely most importantly its a goal you set for yourself in the game and constantly working towards it. And as strangely as it might sound to some, working towards goals is fun for some and makes playing the game meaningful. As many have voiced their concerns over inscriptions, as i understand as best as i can, what it translate is allowing players more freedom over their choice of weapons and bringing the line between "wants" and "needs" closer which is a good thing overall for the majority of gamers but overall if not implemented properly will eventually create a even larger void for players towards the end and will inevitable cause more players to lose interest over time.

Please dont let ourselves be fooled into thinking that player's interest will be renewed with every new chapter like Jeff strain does. New games with newer interesting concepts are always on the horizon and theres always plenty of new MMOs to try some of which are free to play as well.How GW will try to offset this by implementing new and interesting game elements awaits to be seen. Either way they already got your monies once you buy the game, its a win win for them even if you lose interest and quit lol.

Edit for spelling and grammer (as best as i can)

leprekan · Oct 02, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Thallandor,

There isn't a "void" between needs and wants now. Anet has Collectors and greens that are either dirt cheap or very affordable. They are there for the "casual gamer" so he doesnt have to grind to get weapons with similar stats as the more hardcore player. Everyone yelling Yay! ... please consider the long term effects if the economy becomes only 2 classes. Either Anet will have to lower the bar even further for the (cough cough) casual gamer group or only the rich will have many of the titles and better armor. Those thinking this won't tank the economy haven't followed the Anet tweaks and the end results to well.

The game is to be released in less than a month ... Ms. Gray could throw us a bone on this topic. Anet knows how the system is supposed to work by now. *gasp* Could it be they want us to buy a copy and the truth might cause a few to not!?!?! =p